Sausage wrote:
Guardiola is a great manager. However, remember this.
At Barcelona he had great players, four in particular: Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol. People don’t remember Puyol because he was a defender and doesn’t show up on Filthy stats, but he was their leader on the pitch and everything that Stones is not.
When Guardiola joined Bayern they were already dominating Germany as champions, and have won it every year since. But they never reached a Champions League final under him.*
*(Added by Bertie: Bayern had actually reached the two previous CL finals before the season Pep arrived: winning one and losing the other on pens. But they didn't reach it in 3 years under him)
It remains to be seen how well he does with Man City, and I’m sure he will as he keeps improving that squad. But a Premiership and League Cup double this season would be no more successful than Pelligrini did in 2014, or Mourinho twice at Chelsea.
This.
Guardiola did great at Barcelona, but he managed them between 2008-2012: during that time they had a core of the Spain team that won all 3 International competitions (Euro 2008 and 2012 and the 2010 world cup), along with Lionel Messi.
During those years Messi, Iniesta and Xavi were regularly in the top 5 for the end of season Ballon D'or.
He won 14 trophies in 4 seasons with them, but he was certainly helped by having one of the greatest squads there has ever been, many of whom were also dominating internationally with Spain under a different manager.
Zinedane Zidane has won 8 trophies so far in 2 and a half years with Madrid with a strong squad but one that lacks the list of world class talent that Guardiola had, and only Ronaldo (only!) who dominates in the individual honours and who's winning internationally.
Zidane has also won 2 CL's in his 2 seasons as a manager and may make it 3 in 3 this year.
Guardiola has won 2 CL's and is in his 8th season as manager of huge clubs.
I'm not at all saying Zidane's better, I make the comparison because while Guardiola gets eulogised over, Zidane still gets questioned and people say the jury's still out on whether he is a great manager or just benefits from having great players at a great club.
But the same can still be argued over Guardiola.
He is yet to take over a team who weren't mega-rich, with a squad full of quality, and already league title contenders, all before he arrived.
For instance, how Mourinho won the CL with Porto and Inter Milan (during a time when no Portuguese teams at all, and no other Italian clubs but Juventus, have been competitive in it).
It's all about how we perceive different managers, with a lot of focus on Pep and Zidane.