THE CONCRETE ROUNDABOUT (TCR)

The Unofficial MK Dons Forum. Discuss and debate all things Dons
It is currently Wed May 08, 2024 12:10 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 323 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 33  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:56 am
Posts: 9237
I always vote labour. But no party will be able to make much difference in the near term. The finances dictate that.

_________________
I don't need your ill-informed, half-baked, idiotic opinions. I have plenty of those myself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 5:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:01 am
Posts: 4903
keyser soze wrote:
I always vote labour. But no party will be able to make much difference in the near term. The finances dictate that.


That's always the excuse. The climate demands it.

_________________
Disclaimer: All my comments are my opinions unless stated otherwise. I'm just a fan following my club.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:56 am
Posts: 9237
ReturnofMoo wrote:
keyser soze wrote:
I always vote labour. But no party will be able to make much difference in the near term. The finances dictate that.


That's always the excuse. The climate demands it.

Look at what we owe and how much it’s costing to service the debt. You could probably borrow more but the repayments would make Austerity look like a tea party.

_________________
I don't need your ill-informed, half-baked, idiotic opinions. I have plenty of those myself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:48 pm
Posts: 2469
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
I'd love to read a concise answer to this question: what does a Keir Starmer Labour Party stand for? And I'd like to see an answer that doesn't just involve deflecting and bashing the Conservatives.

Anyone?

_________________
It's Pete's train set, and we should all feel honoured to be granted the privilege of paying to play with it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:50 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:09 pm
Posts: 6884
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
I'd love to read a concise answer to this question: what does a Keir Starmer Labour Party stand for? And I'd like to see an answer that doesn't just involve deflecting and bashing the Conservatives.

Anyone?


As I’ve already stated, I’m a life-long Labour supporter, and in my younger days an activist. I couldn’t tell you what Starmer’s Labour stands for. But I know this. I’m glad that he’s not Corbyn.

Like I’m constantly banning on about, I’m a life-long supporter. I’ve worked for the party on a voluntary basis, fund raised, even been arrested on a miners strike demo. So it’s fair to say I think I’ve done my bit. When Corbyn took over the party, me and folk like me, people who’d put their lives into supporting the socialist cause, were being told by others who’d paid £2 to register as Labour supporters that we weren’t welcome. I was actually called a ‘friend of Israel’ by someone simply for having the temerity to be married to someone who once lived there. It just became stupid towards the end.

His, Corbyn’s, biggest achievement in politics was to stand on a stage at Glastonbury and have the crowd sing Seven Nation Army back at him. Well done. Take that to the polls. Oh he did you say! And how did that work out? The biggest Conservative majority since God was a boy. Well done.

What I’m trying to get across to those who think that Starmer is vanilla is this. Unless you’ve been through the above, you can have no idea what it’s been like since the Brexit vote. No idea whatsoever. It’s been dreadful. Starmer! He’s obviously not much better than Sunak. But he is better.

Here’s what I think is going to happen. Starmer’s Labour win the next general election, but without much enthusiasm from anyone. Including the Labour Party itself. It won’t be a rerun of Blair in ‘97, even although arguably the Conservatives are in a worse state now than they were then. Starmer will win simply by being the least worst option. Nothing much will change. Because the country’s been run into the ground. There’s no magic wand that Labour when in power can wave to undo what the current government has done to this country. That’s how it is.

And I know you didn’t want the Conservative party’s part in all of this discussed, but allow an old man his say. The Conservative Party will lurch even further to the right than they already have. Sunak will either fall victim to a Braverman led coup, or will leave politics and return to the USA where he once held a green card, and count his enormous pile of cash. Under Braverman, they will engage in populist agendas, and as with Trump’s Republicans, just plain lies. If you think that Sue-Ellen’s 700m refugees heading to the UK’s shores on a flotilla of inflatable lie-lows is bad, then you ain’t seen nothing yet.

Whatever happens, we’re fucked either way. Best go with Billy Connolly’s take on politics… Don’t vote. It’ll only encourage them.

_________________
For those that like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like.


Last edited by Gers on Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:03 pm
Posts: 2376
keyser soze wrote:
ReturnofMoo wrote:
keyser soze wrote:
I always vote labour. But no party will be able to make much difference in the near term. The finances dictate that.


That's always the excuse. The climate demands it.

Look at what we owe and how much it’s costing to service the debt. You could probably borrow more but the repayments would make Austerity look like a tea party.


Nothing that a little quantitative easing and a progressive wealth tax couldn't fix.

To expand on this -there is more money washing around the economy than the Tories (and indeed Starmer's Labour) care to admit. Record profits across the energy sector quarter after quarter for 2 years in a row. These profits could and should be utilised to fund the urgent climate action needed - which itself could guarantee energy security, reduce households bills, free up disposable income and reduce inflation in the long term.


Last edited by Ormeau on Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:03 pm
Posts: 2376
Gers wrote:
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
I'd love to read a concise answer to this question: what does a Keir Starmer Labour Party stand for? And I'd like to see an answer that doesn't just involve deflecting and bashing the Conservatives.

Anyone?


As I’ve already stated, I’m a life-long Labour supporter, and in my younger days an activist. I couldn’t tell you what Starmer’s Labour stands for. But I know this. I’m glad that he’s not Corbyn.

Like I’m constantly banning on about, I’m a life-long supporter. I’ve worked for the party on a voluntary basis, fund raised, even been arrested on a miners strike demo. So it’s fair to say I think I’ve done my bit. When Corbyn took over the party, me and folk like me, people who’d put their lives into supporting the socialist cause, were being told by others who’d paid £2 to register as Labour supporters that we weren’t welcome. I was actually called a ‘friend of Israel’ by someone simply for having the temerity to be married to someone who once lived there. It just became stupid towards the end.

His, Corbyn’s, biggest achievement in politics was to stand on a stage at Glastonbury and have the crowd sing Seven Nation Army back at him. Well done. Take that to the polls. Oh he did you say! And how did that work out? The biggest Conservative majority since God was a boy. Well done.

What I’m trying to get across to those who think that Starmer is vanilla is this. Unless you’ve been through the above, you can have no idea what it’s been like since the Brexit vote. No idea whatsoever. It’s been dreadful. Starmer! He’s obviously not much better than Sunak. But he is better.

Here’s what I think is going to happen. Starmer’s Labour win the next general election, but without much enthusiasm from anyone. Including the Labour Party itself. It won’t be a rerun of Blair in ‘97, even although arguably the Conservatives are in a worse state now than they were then. Starmer will win simply by being the least worst option. Nothing much will change. Because the country’s been run into the ground. There’s no magic wand that Labour when in power can wave to undo what the current government has done to this country. That’s how it is.

And I know you didn’t want the Conservative party’s part in all of this discussed, but allow an old man his say. The Conservative Party will lurch even further to the right than they already have. Sunak will either fall victim to a Braverman led coup, or will leave politics and return to the USA where he once held a green card, and count his enormous pile of cash. Under Braverman, they will engage in populist agendas, and as with Trump’s Republicans, just plain lies. If you think that Sue-Ellen’s 700m refugees heading to the UK’s shores on a flotilla of inflatable lie-lows is bad, then you ain’t seen nothing yet.

Whatever happens, we’re fucked either way. Best go with Billy Connolly’s take on politics… Don’t vote. It’ll only encourage them.


Out of interest have you seen the Labour files? Is so what did you think? If not - I recommend it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:03 pm
Posts: 2376
Gers wrote:
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
I'd love to read a concise answer to this question: what does a Keir Starmer Labour Party stand for? And I'd like to see an answer that doesn't just involve deflecting and bashing the Conservatives.

Anyone?


As I’ve already stated, I’m a life-long Labour supporter, and in my younger days an activist. I couldn’t tell you what Starmer’s Labour stands for. But I know this. I’m glad that he’s not Corbyn.

Like I’m constantly banning on about, I’m a life-long supporter. I’ve worked for the party on a voluntary basis, fund raised, even been arrested on a miners strike demo. So it’s fair to say I think I’ve done my bit. When Corbyn took over the party, me and folk like me, people who’d put their lives into supporting the socialist cause, were being told by others who’d paid £2 to register as Labour supporters that we weren’t welcome. I was actually called a ‘friend of Israel’ by someone simply for having the temerity to be married to someone who once lived there. It just became stupid towards the end.

His, Corbyn’s, biggest achievement in politics was to stand on a stage at Glastonbury and have the crowd sing Seven Nation Army back at him. Well done. Take that to the polls. Oh he did you say! And how did that work out? The biggest Conservative majority since God was a boy. Well done.

What I’m trying to get across to those who think that Starmer is vanilla is this. Unless you’ve been through the above, you can have no idea what it’s been like since the Brexit vote. No idea whatsoever. It’s been dreadful. Starmer! He’s obviously not much better than Sunak. But he is better.

Here’s what I think is going to happen. Starmer’s Labour win the next general election, but without much enthusiasm from anyone. Including the Labour Party itself. It won’t be a rerun of Blair in ‘97, even although arguably the Conservatives are in a worse state now than they were then. Starmer will win simply by being the least worst option. Nothing much will change. Because the country’s been run into the ground. There’s no magic wand that Labour when in power can wave to undo what the current government has done to this country. That’s how it is.

And I know you didn’t want the Conservative party’s part in all of this discussed, but allow an old man his say. The Conservative Party will lurch even further to the right than they already have. Sunak will either fall victim to a Braverman led coup, or will leave politics and return to the USA where he once held a green card, and count his enormous pile of cash. Under Braverman, they will engage in populist agendas, and as with Trump’s Republicans, just plain lies. If you think that Sue-Ellen’s 700m refugees heading to the UK’s shores on a flotilla of inflatable lie-lows is bad, then you ain’t seen nothing yet.

Whatever happens, we’re fucked either way. Best go with Billy Connolly’s take on politics… Don’t vote. It’ll only encourage them.


The polarisation of politics as a whole and the strengthening of the far right is a trend happening across most of the world (worryingly). In NI it has lead to quite a fractious situation within Unionist politics (typical more right leaning) and calls for the formation of two new parties to replace the existing 3 (DUP, TUV,UUP). Essentially left leaning and more moderate Unionists feel they don't have an option that represents them as the DUP have moved into the realms of the far right. It seems a similar scenario is happening with the Conservatives and I wonder if the party as a whole can survive in its current guise? Nigel Farage bumming around in the midst of everything at the Tory conference will surely be hard to tolerate for the more moderate members of the party. Is it at all conceivable that a split could happen?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:48 pm
Posts: 2469
Gers wrote:
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
I'd love to read a concise answer to this question: what does a Keir Starmer Labour Party stand for? And I'd like to see an answer that doesn't just involve deflecting and bashing the Conservatives.

Anyone?


As I’ve already stated, I’m a life-long Labour supporter, and in my younger days an activist. I couldn’t tell you what Starmer’s Labour stands for. But I know this. I’m glad that he’s not Corbyn.

Like I’m constantly banning on about, I’m a life-long supporter. I’ve worked for the party on a voluntary basis, fund raised, even been arrested on a miners strike demo. So it’s fair to say I think I’ve done my bit. When Corbyn took over the party, me and folk like me, people who’d put their lives into supporting the socialist cause, were being told by others who’d paid £2 to register as Labour supporters that we weren’t welcome. I was actually called a ‘friend of Israel’ by someone simply for having the temerity to be married to someone who once lived there. It just became stupid towards the end.

His, Corbyn’s, biggest achievement in politics was to stand on a stage at Glastonbury and have the crowd sing Seven Nation Army back at him. Well done. Take that to the polls. Oh he did you say! And how did that work out? The biggest Conservative majority since God was a boy. Well done.

What I’m trying to get across to those who think that Starmer is vanilla is this. Unless you’ve been through the above, you can have no idea what it’s been like since the Brexit vote. No idea whatsoever. It’s been dreadful. Starmer! He’s obviously not much better than Sunak. But he is better.

Here’s what I think is going to happen. Starmer’s Labour win the next general election, but without much enthusiasm from anyone. Including the Labour Party itself. It won’t be a rerun of Blair in ‘97, even although arguably the Conservatives are in a worse state now than they were then. Starmer will win simply by being the least worst option. Nothing much will change. Because the country’s been run into the ground. There’s no magic wand that Labour when in power can wave to undo what the current government has done to this country. That’s how it is.

And I know you didn’t want the Conservative party’s part in all of this discussed, but allow an old man his say. The Conservative Party will lurch even further to the right than they already have. Sunak will either fall victim to a Braverman led coup, or will leave politics and return to the USA where he once held a green card, and count his enormous pile of cash. Under Braverman, they will engage in populist agendas, and as with Trump’s Republicans, just plain lies. If you think that Sue-Ellen’s 700m refugees heading to the UK’s shores on a flotilla of inflatable lie-lows is bad, then you ain’t seen nothing yet.

Whatever happens, we’re fucked either way. Best go with Billy Connolly’s take on politics… Don’t vote. It’ll only encourage them.


Tbh I agree with every word of that, except perhaps the bit about the magic wand. Even if it was possible for a party to come in solve all the problems Britain has, I don't think this Labour party is remotely capable.

_________________
It's Pete's train set, and we should all feel honoured to be granted the privilege of paying to play with it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:48 pm
Posts: 2469
Ormeau wrote:
The polarisation of politics as a whole and the strengthening of the far right is a trend happening across most of the world (worryingly). In NI it has lead to quite a fractious situation within Unionist politics (typical more right leaning) and calls for the formation of two new parties to replace the existing 3 (DUP, TUV,UUP). Essentially left leaning and more moderate Unionists feel they don't have an option that represents them as the DUP have moved into the realms of the far right. It seems a similar scenario is happening with the Conservatives and I wonder if the party as a whole can survive in its current guise? Nigel Farage bumming around in the midst of everything at the Tory conference will surely be hard to tolerate for the more moderate members of the party. Is it at all conceivable that a split could happen?

I don't think the Conservatives will split - if Brexit didn't split them despite everything, I don't think anything will. Too many backbenchers in a very comfortable position that don't want to take the risk of upsetting their cushy situation.

I'd like to ask you a question about NI politics: how are Sinn Fein viewed these days? I know they made some big gains in the last election south of the border - was wondering if they're gaining more of the middle ground (if such a thing exists in NI) under O'Neill, or if the connections with Adams and McGuinness are still a bit too recent and raw?

_________________
It's Pete's train set, and we should all feel honoured to be granted the privilege of paying to play with it.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 323 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 33  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group