THE CONCRETE ROUNDABOUT (TCR)

The Unofficial MK Dons Forum. Discuss and debate all things Dons
It is currently Tue Jun 04, 2024 11:41 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:48 pm
Posts: 2565
Ormeau wrote:
What we really need to do is make politics more accessible to a broader and more diverse range of people. MPs already get paid way about average salaries, much much more than what most people receive. We need to facilitate better access to politics for women, ethnic minorities, people form working class backgrounds etc.


I disagree with this. I want the best, most capable people available to run the country. If that brings together a mix of genders, ethnicities, religious backgrounds, sexual orientations, etc., then that's fine. But if that turns out to be a fairly homogenous group, I'm fine with that, too.

This is going to sound like a horrendous soundbite but I think ability is more important than identity for this.

_________________
"While I'm worth, the room on this earth..."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:03 pm
Posts: 2450
BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Ormeau wrote:
What we really need to do is make politics more accessible to a broader and more diverse range of people. MPs already get paid way about average salaries, much much more than what most people receive. We need to facilitate better access to politics for women, ethnic minorities, people form working class backgrounds etc.


I disagree with this. I want the best, most capable people available to run the country. If that brings together a mix of genders, ethnicities, religious backgrounds, sexual orientations, etc., then that's fine. But if that turns out to be a fairly homogenous group, I'm fine with that, too.

This is going to sound like a horrendous soundbite but I think ability is more important than identity for this.


I hate political debate so wasn't expecting to join in on this thread, but just want to say completely agree with this post. It's clearly not the way most things are quite openly heading, but I agree with the point anyway.


Sorry if I have been unclear - I'm not implying we need inclusion just for the sake of it, I meant that there will be a significant number of highly competent people who would never consider politics because they don't want to bother with the misogyny (women), racism (ethnic minorities) or have been conditioned to believe it isn't a place for people from their socio-economic background (working class communities).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:00 pm
Posts: 1567
In my view anyone who is daft enough to subject themselves to current media muck raking through their past to find some perceived little incident or comment that they can twist into a major scandal is not intelligent enough to be entrusted to take any part in running the country.

We will never have good governance until the media are somehow stopped from trying to destroy everyone who comes to prominence in the public eye. They constantly waffle on about 'holding to account' and 'freedom of the press'. They should themselves be held to account about their constant abuse of press freedom.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:48 pm
Posts: 2565
Ormeau wrote:
Sorry if I have been unclear - I'm not implying we need inclusion just for the sake of it, I meant that there will be a significant number of highly competent people who would never consider politics because they don't want to bother with the misogyny (women), racism (ethnic minorities) or have been conditioned to believe it isn't a place for people from their socio-economic background (working class communities).

I think there are lots of people from every walk of life who don't want to go into politics because of the media and social media grief they'll get for anything and everything. Being privately educated, looking a bit unusual, just being a Conservative, having any sort of opinion on any side about what defines a woman, etc. etc., on top of all the discriminatory issues you mentioned.

To quote Peter Mannion in The Thick Of It: "That's the problem with the public: they're fucking horrible."

_________________
"While I'm worth, the room on this earth..."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:56 am
Posts: 9338
donmentor wrote:
In my view anyone who is daft enough to subject themselves to current media muck raking through their past to find some perceived little incident or comment that they can twist into a major scandal is not intelligent enough to be entrusted to take any part in running the country.

We will never have good governance until the media are somehow stopped from trying to destroy everyone who comes to prominence in the public eye. They constantly waffle on about 'holding to account' and 'freedom of the press'. They should themselves be held to account about their constant abuse of press freedom.

Some of that is the politician's own fault for kow-towing to people like Murdoch, rather than standing up to him and his ilk.

_________________
I don't need your ill-informed, half-baked, idiotic opinions. I have plenty of those myself.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:00 pm
Posts: 1567
keyser soze wrote:
donmentor wrote:
In my view anyone who is daft enough to subject themselves to current media muck raking through their past to find some perceived little incident or comment that they can twist into a major scandal is not intelligent enough to be entrusted to take any part in running the country.

We will never have good governance until the media are somehow stopped from trying to destroy everyone who comes to prominence in the public eye. They constantly waffle on about 'holding to account' and 'freedom of the press'. They should themselves be held to account about their constant abuse of press freedom.

Some of that is the politician's own fault for kow-towing to people like Murdoch, rather than standing up to him and his ilk.


That is very true. And also chickening out of sorting the problem at the time of the News of the World saga.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:07 pm
Posts: 1361
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Ormeau wrote:
What we really need to do is make politics more accessible to a broader and more diverse range of people. MPs already get paid way about average salaries, much much more than what most people receive. We need to facilitate better access to politics for women, ethnic minorities, people form working class backgrounds etc.


I disagree with this. I want the best, most capable people available to run the country. If that brings together a mix of genders, ethnicities, religious backgrounds, sexual orientations, etc., then that's fine. But if that turns out to be a fairly homogenous group, I'm fine with that, too.

This is going to sound like a horrendous soundbite but I think ability is more important than identity for this.


Completely disagree with that way of thinking.

Depends on your definition of most capable. The most capable groups have routinely been found to be ones that can consider a wider range of ideas and insights. Neurodiversity has scientifically been shown to boost overall group performance far more than looking at each individual's qualifications in isolation.

Sure, your upper-middle class white male Oxbridge graduate may perform better in an aptitude test and might be better than a different individual. But a group of upper-middle class white male Oxbridge graduates will more or less only have one way of thinking regardless of if it's one, ten, or a hundred.

The easiest way to get neurodiversity is through diversity of background, be that gender, ethnicity, sexuality, upbringing, etc. You might get lucky and have a group of aforementioned graduates who actually are able to offer neurodiversity, but realistically you probably won't, and so you're less likely to be considering enough viewpoints to come to the optimum answer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:56 pm
Posts: 4857
BristolDon wrote:
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Ormeau wrote:
What we really need to do is make politics more accessible to a broader and more diverse range of people. MPs already get paid way about average salaries, much much more than what most people receive. We need to facilitate better access to politics for women, ethnic minorities, people form working class backgrounds etc.


I disagree with this. I want the best, most capable people available to run the country. If that brings together a mix of genders, ethnicities, religious backgrounds, sexual orientations, etc., then that's fine. But if that turns out to be a fairly homogenous group, I'm fine with that, too.

This is going to sound like a horrendous soundbite but I think ability is more important than identity for this.


Completely disagree with that way of thinking.

Depends on your definition of most capable. The most capable groups have routinely been found to be ones that can consider a wider range of ideas and insights. Neurodiversity has scientifically been shown to boost overall group performance far more than looking at each individual's qualifications in isolation.

Sure, your upper-middle class white male Oxbridge graduate may perform better in an aptitude test and might be better than a different individual. But a group of upper-middle class white male Oxbridge graduates will more or less only have one way of thinking regardless of if it's one, ten, or a hundred.

The easiest way to get neurodiversity is through diversity of background, be that gender, ethnicity, sexuality, upbringing, etc. You might get lucky and have a group of aforementioned graduates who actually are able to offer neurodiversity, but realistically you probably won't, and so you're less likely to be considering enough viewpoints to come to the optimum answer


It’s a good point.

I used to be very much of the view that you should always employ the most capable person for every role. However, I’ve come round to the thinking that you want a team with diversity of thinking, and therefore employing someone who isn’t necessarily the best individual for a certain post, but complements the team, is often the way to go.

Matthew Syed covers this very well in “Rebel Ideas”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:56 am
Posts: 9338
dons50 wrote:
BristolDon wrote:
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Ormeau wrote:
What we really need to do is make politics more accessible to a broader and more diverse range of people. MPs already get paid way about average salaries, much much more than what most people receive. We need to facilitate better access to politics for women, ethnic minorities, people form working class backgrounds etc.


I disagree with this. I want the best, most capable people available to run the country. If that brings together a mix of genders, ethnicities, religious backgrounds, sexual orientations, etc., then that's fine. But if that turns out to be a fairly homogenous group, I'm fine with that, too.

This is going to sound like a horrendous soundbite but I think ability is more important than identity for this.


Completely disagree with that way of thinking.

Depends on your definition of most capable. The most capable groups have routinely been found to be ones that can consider a wider range of ideas and insights. Neurodiversity has scientifically been shown to boost overall group performance far more than looking at each individual's qualifications in isolation.

Sure, your upper-middle class white male Oxbridge graduate may perform better in an aptitude test and might be better than a different individual. But a group of upper-middle class white male Oxbridge graduates will more or less only have one way of thinking regardless of if it's one, ten, or a hundred.

The easiest way to get neurodiversity is through diversity of background, be that gender, ethnicity, sexuality, upbringing, etc. You might get lucky and have a group of aforementioned graduates who actually are able to offer neurodiversity, but realistically you probably won't, and so you're less likely to be considering enough viewpoints to come to the optimum answer


It’s a good point.

I used to be very much of the view that you should always employ the most capable person for every role. However, I’ve come round to the thinking that you want a team with diversity of thinking, and therefore employing someone who isn’t necessarily the best individual for a certain post, but complements the team, is often the way to go.

Matthew Syed covers this very well in “Rebel Ideas”

Meredith Belbin…. Well worth a read. I met him once.

_________________
I don't need your ill-informed, half-baked, idiotic opinions. I have plenty of those myself.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:48 pm
Posts: 2565
BristolDon wrote:
Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Ormeau wrote:
What we really need to do is make politics more accessible to a broader and more diverse range of people. MPs already get paid way about average salaries, much much more than what most people receive. We need to facilitate better access to politics for women, ethnic minorities, people form working class backgrounds etc.


I disagree with this. I want the best, most capable people available to run the country. If that brings together a mix of genders, ethnicities, religious backgrounds, sexual orientations, etc., then that's fine. But if that turns out to be a fairly homogenous group, I'm fine with that, too.

This is going to sound like a horrendous soundbite but I think ability is more important than identity for this.


Completely disagree with that way of thinking.

Depends on your definition of most capable. The most capable groups have routinely been found to be ones that can consider a wider range of ideas and insights. Neurodiversity has scientifically been shown to boost overall group performance far more than looking at each individual's qualifications in isolation.

Sure, your upper-middle class white male Oxbridge graduate may perform better in an aptitude test and might be better than a different individual. But a group of upper-middle class white male Oxbridge graduates will more or less only have one way of thinking regardless of if it's one, ten, or a hundred.

The easiest way to get neurodiversity is through diversity of background, be that gender, ethnicity, sexuality, upbringing, etc. You might get lucky and have a group of aforementioned graduates who actually are able to offer neurodiversity, but realistically you probably won't, and so you're less likely to be considering enough viewpoints to come to the optimum answer

Interesting thought, although it depends on the type of government work involved. We could be talking about the cabinet, parliamentary undersecretaries, spads, the civil service, and so on.

I guess I favour clear, decisive leadership and probably have underlying concerns that adding too many views into decision making ends up with an indecisive, 'too many cooks' situation. This is probably explained by the fact that i live and work on my own. :lol:

_________________
"While I'm worth, the room on this earth..."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group