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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:28 pm 
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Russybcool wrote:
ReturnofMoo wrote:
I not a hater. I just say that if doesn't score he doesn't contribute anything else to the team and he didn't today. However, well done for scoring the goal.


I don't really get what you want him to do. His job is to score goals. He can't and shouldn't have to do it all himself. You need to look at the lack of any kind of playmaker. Play to his strengths which is balls to feet he will make stuff happen. The middle of the pitch is not supporting any of them but I guess they both don't get the same critisim as others


Im not sure that holds a lot of water for me. If your designated position holds one purpose then you can never criticise the goalkeeper for having poor distribution or a winger for not tracking back or a midfielder for not scoring enough.

Im not a Mo Hater but I am ambivalent towards him as a striker. He either scores or nothing and his conversion rate isnt enough for nothing Im afraid. We dont present him with anything like enough as a team but there has to be more than just scoring occasionally.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 2:51 pm 
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Magpie wrote:
Russybcool wrote:
ReturnofMoo wrote:
I not a hater. I just say that if doesn't score he doesn't contribute anything else to the team and he didn't today. However, well done for scoring the goal.


I don't really get what you want him to do. His job is to score goals. He can't and shouldn't have to do it all himself. You need to look at the lack of any kind of playmaker. Play to his strengths which is balls to feet he will make stuff happen. The middle of the pitch is not supporting any of them but I guess they both don't get the same critisim as others


Im not sure that holds a lot of water for me. If your designated position holds one purpose then you can never criticise the goalkeeper for having poor distribution or a winger for not tracking back or a midfielder for not scoring enough.

Im not a Mo Hater but I am ambivalent towards him as a striker. He either scores or nothing and his conversion rate isnt enough for nothing Im afraid. We dont present him with anything like enough as a team but there has to be more than just scoring occasionally.


Yup, its a bit ridiculous to not be able to criticise a strikers game, just because they scored a goal.

For me, Mo needs to have more of a physical presence up front. I'm not expecting him to win headers against CB's, thats not his game, but he needs to make it a bit harder for them and be a bit stronger.

One thing I notice in our games, is that it always seems a battle for our defenders when winning headers. Sometimes they won't win them or they'll only be able to get a bit of the ball. Whereas the opposition are pretty much unchallenged and can cushion a header down to a team mate or do a long clearing header. Mo needs to do more to prevent this, so that we have a chance at winning the second ball.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:24 pm 
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East Wing Don wrote:
Magpie wrote:
Russybcool wrote:
ReturnofMoo wrote:
I not a hater. I just say that if doesn't score he doesn't contribute anything else to the team and he didn't today. However, well done for scoring the goal.


I don't really get what you want him to do. His job is to score goals. He can't and shouldn't have to do it all himself. You need to look at the lack of any kind of playmaker. Play to his strengths which is balls to feet he will make stuff happen. The middle of the pitch is not supporting any of them but I guess they both don't get the same critisim as others


Im not sure that holds a lot of water for me. If your designated position holds one purpose then you can never criticise the goalkeeper for having poor distribution or a winger for not tracking back or a midfielder for not scoring enough.

Im not a Mo Hater but I am ambivalent towards him as a striker. He either scores or nothing and his conversion rate isnt enough for nothing Im afraid. We dont present him with anything like enough as a team but there has to be more than just scoring occasionally.


Yup, its a bit ridiculous to not be able to criticise a strikers game, just because they scored a goal.

For me, Mo needs to have more of a physical presence up front. I'm not expecting him to win headers against CB's, thats not his game, but he needs to make it a bit harder for them and be a bit stronger.

One thing I notice in our games, is that it always seems a battle for our defenders when winning headers. Sometimes they won't win them or they'll only be able to get a bit of the ball. Whereas the opposition are pretty much unchallenged and can cushion a header down to a team mate or do a long clearing header. Mo needs to do more to prevent this, so that we have a chance at winning the second ball.


Maybe the fact that he has just come back from major knee surgery is why he doesn't get stuck in. Not saying thats an excuse but it might be a reason why he doesn't feel comfortable. Maybe he's not told to do that by Jackson who knows. Just before he came back people on here were so happy that he was returning and that he was going to save our season. Personally he done the best he can with what little he is given from our midfield. Yes, he doesn't have the all round game but if a league one striker did they probably wouldn't be a League one striker for long. If we go down I expect him to go and ply his trade for another league one club. I mean to be honest if there is time left on his contract he is probably one of a few thats actually worth any money


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:35 am 
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Eisa’s a finisher, pure and simple. His game isn’t about harrying defenders, getting stuck in or any of that sort of thing.

Much like any player who’s capable of finishing the way he does, he’ll have been told by every coach from about the age of 9, “I don’t want you running around. Conserve your energy. Stay alert for that one chance that’ll come your way. I don’t want to see you too tired to latch onto that defence splitting pass because you’ve been running doggies for ninety minutes to keep Terry in the East Stand happy”.

There’s always been those kind of strikers. They’re not necessarily lazy.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:22 pm 
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Camdenite wrote:
Eisa’s a finisher, pure and simple. His game isn’t about harrying defenders, getting stuck in or any of that sort of thing.

Much like any player who’s capable of finishing the way he does, he’ll have been told by every coach from about the age of 9, “I don’t want you running around. Conserve your energy. Stay alert for that one chance that’ll come your way. I don’t want to see you too tired to latch onto that defence splitting pass because you’ve been running doggies for ninety minutes to keep Terry in the East Stand happy”.

There’s always been those kind of strikers. They’re not necessarily lazy.


I agree with this. Being a nuisance isnt always physical though. Lots of strikers are like Mo and the commonality is that they always play on the shoulder of the last man, are often caught offside but create a level of discomfort for a back line by working at the margins and pushing the boundaries of offside and onside. I dont really see that in Mo. He pulls out wide and drops deep. it could well be the case that he is being misused by the coach and asked to undertake tasks he is ill equipped for of course and thats something he cant control.

His conversion rate doesnt feel high enough to me, Ive not a single stat to back that up though. For a pure striker who does little else in sacrifce of being ready for that one chance, I dont believe Mo converts it often enough, even with L1 striker level context factored in.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:25 pm 
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Camdenite wrote:
Eisa’s a finisher, pure and simple. His game isn’t about harrying defenders, getting stuck in or any of that sort of thing.

Much like any player who’s capable of finishing the way he does, he’ll have been told by every coach from about the age of 9, “I don’t want you running around. Conserve your energy. Stay alert for that one chance that’ll come your way. I don’t want to see you too tired to latch onto that defence splitting pass because you’ve been running doggies for ninety minutes to keep Terry in the East Stand happy”.

There’s always been those kind of strikers. They’re not necessarily lazy.


I do partly agree but I still think Eisa needs to have more of a physical presence up front. As I said, I'm not expecting him to win headers and I don't expect him to in any way be a target man, but he needs to add more to his game than just being a finisher (which he's not actually been as good at this season).

I'd say out of all of the strikers in the league, he has to be up there as giving defenders the easiest time when winning balls. Name me another striker at this level that CB's have more success with?

Not in anyway an Eisa hater and have actually defending him many times, but I'm getting a bit tired of CB's being completely unchallenged every single time. Not seen any other team this season make it so easy for the opposition.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:38 pm 
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It's not Eisa's work rate I have issue with, although he, like a number of strikers, like to remain cosy in the middle, even the only out ball is up the wing and they are the only available player.

However, I do wonder, if other positions, took the division the labour approach. Goalies refuse to be sweeper keepers, defenders only defend and wingers refuse to come into middle. I thought the idea was to defend as a team and attack as a team. Certainly the idea would get short shrift in the Premiership, although there would always be a home at PSG.

As I said, I'm not a Mo hater, it's just that he's not my type of player. Look at the work rate of Jesus at City and now Arsenal. He contributes to the play as well as being a goal scorer. Even Haaland puts it about as well as being a goal scoring machine and there are plenty of examples in the lower leagues.

However, I didn't realise I was discussing with a Uber Mo fan. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:17 pm 
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Quote:
ReturnofMoo wrote:
It's not Eisa's work rate I have issue with, although he, like a number of strikers, like to remain cosy in the middle, even the only out ball is up the wing and they are the only available player.


That's taken me back.....Just musing back to the days when one of the junior Ramones played for Scott Youth. Standing on the touchline next to the coach/manager he observed as we scored "Another good goal from ****. He's a right lazy s*d like most strikers but he gets the job done".

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:29 pm 
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Aliramone wrote:
Quote:
ReturnofMoo wrote:
It's not Eisa's work rate I have issue with, although he, like a number of strikers, like to remain cosy in the middle, even the only out ball is up the wing and they are the only available player.


That's taken me back.....Just musing back to the days when one of the junior Ramones played for Scott Youth. Standing on the touchline next to the coach/manager he observed as we scored "Another good goal from ****. He's a right lazy s*d like most strikers but he gets the job done".


Made me think of this gentleman:

Quote:
An instinctive opportunist blessed with blinding speed both of movement and thought, Greaves, compiled the phenomenal total of nearly 500 senior goals, the majority of them stroked into opponents’ nets with clinical economy after he had popped up, as if from nowhere, in precisely the right spot at the right time. One moment drifting nonchalantly on the periphery of the action, the next he would dart unerringly to its very heart, and invariably the effect was lethal.


This is a wonderful obit from the independent, well worth a read - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/jimmy-jeaves-obituary-death-tribute-b1922854.html


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:36 pm 
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Oldfarmdons wrote:
Aliramone wrote:
Quote:
ReturnofMoo wrote:
It's not Eisa's work rate I have issue with, although he, like a number of strikers, like to remain cosy in the middle, even the only out ball is up the wing and they are the only available player.


That's taken me back.....Just musing back to the days when one of the junior Ramones played for Scott Youth. Standing on the touchline next to the coach/manager he observed as we scored "Another good goal from ****. He's a right lazy s*d like most strikers but he gets the job done".


Made me think of this gentleman:

Quote:
An instinctive opportunist blessed with blinding speed both of movement and thought, Greaves, compiled the phenomenal total of nearly 500 senior goals, the majority of them stroked into opponents’ nets with clinical economy after he had popped up, as if from nowhere, in precisely the right spot at the right time. One moment drifting nonchalantly on the periphery of the action, the next he would dart unerringly to its very heart, and invariably the effect was lethal.


This is a wonderful obit from the independent, well worth a read - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/jimmy-jeaves-obituary-death-tribute-b1922854.html


A unique talent in a bygone era; yet Alf Ramsey preferred Geoff Hurst in the final and was proved right.

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Disclaimer: All my comments are my opinions unless stated otherwise. I'm just a fan following my club.


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