THE CONCRETE ROUNDABOUT (TCR) :: View topic

Kempstondons6 wrote:

Silverous wrote:

Kempstondons6 wrote:

Silverous wrote:

Robbie was the saviour, we had a post-new-manager bounce, now he's the villain. Success seems to be based on margins in this league - in my view we don't have quite the quality team we think we do (defence has been poor, attack lacking), our fans aren't quite as die hard and supportive as others perhaps, our stadium is too big and I suspect only a handful of the players are playing for the badge. Get a new manager and I suspect we'd have a post-new-manager bounce like we did with Robbie, but how much of that was down to having a Harvey Barnes & Chuks on form up front and the remains of our championship failing squad behind them.

Still relatively new team, still not enough quality in attack for me - swap Maynard for Agard and it could be last season. Only some of this is down to Robbie.

The sense of expectation, wrongly set by Robbie (and for that I do blame him), but with caution from Pete around maybe it will take more than a season (which clearly it will), is what baffles me. Surely every team in league one is entitled to want promotion but that magic combination of fans, team, manager, chairman, luck etc. will only be available to a few.

Let's not wish for another manager who may have a bounce for a period and then flounder - let's get behind Robbie and the team, no doubt coming out to boos etc. from the fans doesn't help, and maybe moderate expectations for this season to something more realistic. He's not the messiah, he's just a naughty little boy.

I disagree, it is Robbie’s team, he chose the players he wanted, he trains them to play the way he wants them to play, he sets the team up to play in a certain way and he choses which players will play each week so if isn’t his fault, whose is it? The only part of not his fault I would cut him slack for is sick note (sow). He can hardly be blamed for that.

I disagree. We are a mid-table team and no manager is going to dramatically alter that. Maybe he chose the players we could afford or that wanted to come here, people seem to think we have a promotion side. He doesn't actually do the playing you may have noticed so when Ed Upson heads the ball to the opposition - is that Robbie? When we have either Sow or Aneke but not both - is that Robbie's fault? Its too easy and predictable to blame the manager - we blamed Robinson and he seems to be doing ok at Charlton now, and the same people I'm sure that hailed Robbie as the new messiah and wanted Robinson out are now calling for Neilson's head. The manager can do so much but not convinced they can work the miracle needed to get this team to playoffs.

Think you need to take the rose tinted specs off and I made a point of mentioning sow. The football this season has been the worst i’ve Seen at mk. It’s not just a choice of Robinson or Robbie by the way.

They’re not really rose tinted spectacles. The football world’s default response when things aren’t great for a team is sack the manager. Is that really logical. By definition, every team in the bottom third of every division are doing badly. I bet the supporters of nearly all those teams are calling for the manager to be sacked. It’s just not logical that all those managers are bad managers.

Kempstondons6 wrote:

Silverous wrote:

Kempstondons6 wrote:

Silverous wrote:

There's nothing rose tinted about saying we are a mid table team - I think the more rose tinted view is get a new manager in and we'll be pushing promotion. I don't think I said it was a choice of Robbo or Robbie, simply pointing out how each manager is the new messiah and then when we don't get promotion everyone calls for their head. PW said it might not happen this season, and Robbie would have done well to exercise a bit of caution in setting expectations given the axe that he took to the old team. Recent article by Toby Lock is spot on - mid table team, when we have Chuks and Sow we should do quite well although I'm not overly impressed with Sow. No rose tinted specs here, just realism.

dons50 wrote:

Kempstondons6 wrote:

Silverous wrote:

Kempstondons6 wrote:

Silverous wrote:

But which one are the bad ones? You can't easily change the players and why trust the manager to get in new ones when he has picked the current ones. The median average of a football manager (and his coaching staff) at the moment is 1 year and 140 days therefore must be less for managers in the bottom third, depending on the clubs aspirations. Interesting that Robbie's 1 year + 140 days is 21st April. If he survives to then with the current situation / position and complains about performance I can't see him surviving after this season.

Simon Grayson is a good manager. But he’s been sacked. I guess he shouldn’t have been sacked. He’d have sorted it out.

ReturnofMoo wrote:

dons50 wrote:

Kempstondons6 wrote:

Silverous wrote:

Kempstondons6 wrote:

Silverous wrote:

You're assuming that it's correct that the average length of service for a football manager is as you describe. I think it's completely mad.

Alby wrote:

Simon Grayson is a good manager. But he’s been sacked. I guess he shouldn’t have been sacked. He’d have sorted it out.

If he's a good manager then, yes, he would. That's what would happen in any other walk of life.

dons50 wrote:

Alby wrote:

Simon Grayson is a good manager. But he’s been sacked. I guess he shouldn’t have been sacked. He’d have sorted it out.

If he's a good manager then, yes, he would. That's what would happen in any other walk of life.

He is a good manager but not a good fit for Sunderland, but then I don't know who is?

dons50 wrote:

Kempstondons6 wrote:

Silverous wrote:

Kempstondons6 wrote:

Silverous wrote:

This 100%. Those managers then go on to do well elsewhere, highlighting the illogical nature of blaming the manager when clearly they had some good management capability. The rose tinted view is that somehow MK dons deserve to be up there, when we don't seem to be particularly good at attacking or defending right now, because.....we have a sense of entitlement? If fans play any part in the success then we need to get behind the team and support them, our fan base literally boo players and managers the moment things don't go our way.

keyser soze wrote:

I have, he's rubbish, and I still didn't make the team.

Reminds me of another great song line:

I never made the first team, I just made the first team laugh.

Author:	Silverous [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If not Robbie, then who?
dons50 wrote: Kempstondons6 wrote: Silverous wrote: Kempstondons6 wrote: Silverous wrote: Robbie was the saviour, we had a post-new-manager bounce, now he's the villain. Success seems to be based on margins in this league - in my view we don't have quite the quality team we think we do (defence has been poor, attack lacking), our fans aren't quite as die hard and supportive as others perhaps, our stadium is too big and I suspect only a handful of the players are playing for the badge. Get a new manager and I suspect we'd have a post-new-manager bounce like we did with Robbie, but how much of that was down to having a Harvey Barnes & Chuks on form up front and the remains of our championship failing squad behind them. Still relatively new team, still not enough quality in attack for me - swap Maynard for Agard and it could be last season. Only some of this is down to Robbie. The sense of expectation, wrongly set by Robbie (and for that I do blame him), but with caution from Pete around maybe it will take more than a season (which clearly it will), is what baffles me. Surely every team in league one is entitled to want promotion but that magic combination of fans, team, manager, chairman, luck etc. will only be available to a few. Let's not wish for another manager who may have a bounce for a period and then flounder - let's get behind Robbie and the team, no doubt coming out to boos etc. from the fans doesn't help, and maybe moderate expectations for this season to something more realistic. He's not the messiah, he's just a naughty little boy. I disagree, it is Robbie’s team, he chose the players he wanted, he trains them to play the way he wants them to play, he sets the team up to play in a certain way and he choses which players will play each week so if isn’t his fault, whose is it? The only part of not his fault I would cut him slack for is sick note (sow). He can hardly be blamed for that. I disagree. We are a mid-table team and no manager is going to dramatically alter that. Maybe he chose the players we could afford or that wanted to come here, people seem to think we have a promotion side. He doesn't actually do the playing you may have noticed so when Ed Upson heads the ball to the opposition - is that Robbie? When we have either Sow or Aneke but not both - is that Robbie's fault? Its too easy and predictable to blame the manager - we blamed Robinson and he seems to be doing ok at Charlton now, and the same people I'm sure that hailed Robbie as the new messiah and wanted Robinson out are now calling for Neilson's head. The manager can do so much but not convinced they can work the miracle needed to get this team to playoffs. Think you need to take the rose tinted specs off and I made a point of mentioning sow. The football this season has been the worst i’ve Seen at mk. It’s not just a choice of Robinson or Robbie by the way. They’re not really rose tinted spectacles. The football world’s default response when things aren’t great for a team is sack the manager. Is that really logical. By definition, every team in the bottom third of every division are doing badly. I bet the supporters of nearly all those teams are calling for the manager to be sacked. It’s just not logical that all those managers are bad managers. This 100%. Those managers then go on to do well elsewhere, highlighting the illogical nature of blaming the manager when clearly they had some good management capability. The rose tinted view is that somehow MK dons deserve to be up there, when we don't seem to be particularly good at attacking or defending right now, because.....we have a sense of entitlement? If fans play any part in the success then we need to get behind the team and support them, our fan base literally boo players and managers the moment things don't go our way.

Author:	ReturnofMoo [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If not Robbie, then who?
Silverous wrote: Kempstondons6 wrote: Silverous wrote: Kempstondons6 wrote: Silverous wrote: Robbie was the saviour, we had a post-new-manager bounce, now he's the villain. Success seems to be based on margins in this league - in my view we don't have quite the quality team we think we do (defence has been poor, attack lacking), our fans aren't quite as die hard and supportive as others perhaps, our stadium is too big and I suspect only a handful of the players are playing for the badge. Get a new manager and I suspect we'd have a post-new-manager bounce like we did with Robbie, but how much of that was down to having a Harvey Barnes & Chuks on form up front and the remains of our championship failing squad behind them. Still relatively new team, still not enough quality in attack for me - swap Maynard for Agard and it could be last season. Only some of this is down to Robbie. The sense of expectation, wrongly set by Robbie (and for that I do blame him), but with caution from Pete around maybe it will take more than a season (which clearly it will), is what baffles me. Surely every team in league one is entitled to want promotion but that magic combination of fans, team, manager, chairman, luck etc. will only be available to a few. Let's not wish for another manager who may have a bounce for a period and then flounder - let's get behind Robbie and the team, no doubt coming out to boos etc. from the fans doesn't help, and maybe moderate expectations for this season to something more realistic. He's not the messiah, he's just a naughty little boy. I disagree, it is Robbie’s team, he chose the players he wanted, he trains them to play the way he wants them to play, he sets the team up to play in a certain way and he choses which players will play each week so if isn’t his fault, whose is it? The only part of not his fault I would cut him slack for is sick note (sow). He can hardly be blamed for that. I disagree. We are a mid-table team and no manager is going to dramatically alter that. Maybe he chose the players we could afford or that wanted to come here, people seem to think we have a promotion side. He doesn't actually do the playing you may have noticed so when Ed Upson heads the ball to the opposition - is that Robbie? When we have either Sow or Aneke but not both - is that Robbie's fault? Its too easy and predictable to blame the manager - we blamed Robinson and he seems to be doing ok at Charlton now, and the same people I'm sure that hailed Robbie as the new messiah and wanted Robinson out are now calling for Neilson's head. The manager can do so much but not convinced they can work the miracle needed to get this team to playoffs. Think you need to take the rose tinted specs off and I made a point of mentioning sow. The football this season has been the worst i’ve Seen at mk. It’s not just a choice of Robinson or Robbie by the way. There's nothing rose tinted about saying we are a mid table team - I think the more rose tinted view is get a new manager in and we'll be pushing promotion. I don't think I said it was a choice of Robbo or Robbie, simply pointing out how each manager is the new messiah and then when we don't get promotion everyone calls for their head. PW said it might not happen this season, and Robbie would have done well to exercise a bit of caution in setting expectations given the axe that he took to the old team. Recent article by Toby Lock is spot on - mid table team, when we have Chuks and Sow we should do quite well although I'm not overly impressed with Sow. No rose tinted specs here, just realism. I didn't agree with Toby Lock's article and I don't agree with this. With the players got we shouldn't be a mid table team and with this complacency we could end up worse and end up relegated.

Author:	Alby [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If not Robbie, then who?
Simon Grayson is a good manager. But he’s been sacked. I guess he shouldn’t have been sacked. He’d have sorted it out.

Author:	dons50 [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If not Robbie, then who?
ReturnofMoo wrote: dons50 wrote: Kempstondons6 wrote: Silverous wrote: Kempstondons6 wrote: Silverous wrote: Robbie was the saviour, we had a post-new-manager bounce, now he's the villain. Success seems to be based on margins in this league - in my view we don't have quite the quality team we think we do (defence has been poor, attack lacking), our fans aren't quite as die hard and supportive as others perhaps, our stadium is too big and I suspect only a handful of the players are playing for the badge. Get a new manager and I suspect we'd have a post-new-manager bounce like we did with Robbie, but how much of that was down to having a Harvey Barnes & Chuks on form up front and the remains of our championship failing squad behind them. Still relatively new team, still not enough quality in attack for me - swap Maynard for Agard and it could be last season. Only some of this is down to Robbie. The sense of expectation, wrongly set by Robbie (and for that I do blame him), but with caution from Pete around maybe it will take more than a season (which clearly it will), is what baffles me. Surely every team in league one is entitled to want promotion but that magic combination of fans, team, manager, chairman, luck etc. will only be available to a few. Let's not wish for another manager who may have a bounce for a period and then flounder - let's get behind Robbie and the team, no doubt coming out to boos etc. from the fans doesn't help, and maybe moderate expectations for this season to something more realistic. He's not the messiah, he's just a naughty little boy. I disagree, it is Robbie’s team, he chose the players he wanted, he trains them to play the way he wants them to play, he sets the team up to play in a certain way and he choses which players will play each week so if isn’t his fault, whose is it? The only part of not his fault I would cut him slack for is sick note (sow). He can hardly be blamed for that. I disagree. We are a mid-table team and no manager is going to dramatically alter that. Maybe he chose the players we could afford or that wanted to come here, people seem to think we have a promotion side. He doesn't actually do the playing you may have noticed so when Ed Upson heads the ball to the opposition - is that Robbie? When we have either Sow or Aneke but not both - is that Robbie's fault? Its too easy and predictable to blame the manager - we blamed Robinson and he seems to be doing ok at Charlton now, and the same people I'm sure that hailed Robbie as the new messiah and wanted Robinson out are now calling for Neilson's head. The manager can do so much but not convinced they can work the miracle needed to get this team to playoffs. Think you need to take the rose tinted specs off and I made a point of mentioning sow. The football this season has been the worst i’ve Seen at mk. It’s not just a choice of Robinson or Robbie by the way. They’re not really rose tinted spectacles. The football world’s default response when things aren’t great for a team is sack the manager. Is that really logical. By definition, every team in the bottom third of every division are doing badly. I bet the supporters of nearly all those teams are calling for the manager to be sacked. It’s just not logical that all those managers are bad managers. But which one are the bad ones? You can't easily change the players and why trust the manager to get in new ones when he has picked the current ones. The median average of a football manager (and his coaching staff) at the moment is 1 year and 140 days therefore must be less for managers in the bottom third, depending on the clubs aspirations. Interesting that Robbie's 1 year + 140 days is 21st April. If he survives to then with the current situation / position and complains about performance I can't see him surviving after this season. You're assuming that it's correct that the average length of service for a football manager is as you describe. I think it's completely mad.

Author:	dons50 [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If not Robbie, then who?
Alby wrote: Simon Grayson is a good manager. But he’s been sacked. I guess he shouldn’t have been sacked. He’d have sorted it out. If he's a good manager then, yes, he would. That's what would happen in any other walk of life.

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Author:	ReturnofMoo [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If not Robbie, then who?
dons50 wrote: ReturnofMoo wrote: dons50 wrote: Kempstondons6 wrote: Silverous wrote: Kempstondons6 wrote: Silverous wrote: Robbie was the saviour, we had a post-new-manager bounce, now he's the villain. Success seems to be based on margins in this league - in my view we don't have quite the quality team we think we do (defence has been poor, attack lacking), our fans aren't quite as die hard and supportive as others perhaps, our stadium is too big and I suspect only a handful of the players are playing for the badge. Get a new manager and I suspect we'd have a post-new-manager bounce like we did with Robbie, but how much of that was down to having a Harvey Barnes & Chuks on form up front and the remains of our championship failing squad behind them. Still relatively new team, still not enough quality in attack for me - swap Maynard for Agard and it could be last season. Only some of this is down to Robbie. The sense of expectation, wrongly set by Robbie (and for that I do blame him), but with caution from Pete around maybe it will take more than a season (which clearly it will), is what baffles me. Surely every team in league one is entitled to want promotion but that magic combination of fans, team, manager, chairman, luck etc. will only be available to a few. Let's not wish for another manager who may have a bounce for a period and then flounder - let's get behind Robbie and the team, no doubt coming out to boos etc. from the fans doesn't help, and maybe moderate expectations for this season to something more realistic. He's not the messiah, he's just a naughty little boy. I disagree, it is Robbie’s team, he chose the players he wanted, he trains them to play the way he wants them to play, he sets the team up to play in a certain way and he choses which players will play each week so if isn’t his fault, whose is it? The only part of not his fault I would cut him slack for is sick note (sow). He can hardly be blamed for that. I disagree. We are a mid-table team and no manager is going to dramatically alter that. Maybe he chose the players we could afford or that wanted to come here, people seem to think we have a promotion side. He doesn't actually do the playing you may have noticed so when Ed Upson heads the ball to the opposition - is that Robbie? When we have either Sow or Aneke but not both - is that Robbie's fault? Its too easy and predictable to blame the manager - we blamed Robinson and he seems to be doing ok at Charlton now, and the same people I'm sure that hailed Robbie as the new messiah and wanted Robinson out are now calling for Neilson's head. The manager can do so much but not convinced they can work the miracle needed to get this team to playoffs. Think you need to take the rose tinted specs off and I made a point of mentioning sow. The football this season has been the worst i’ve Seen at mk. It’s not just a choice of Robinson or Robbie by the way. They’re not really rose tinted spectacles. The football world’s default response when things aren’t great for a team is sack the manager. Is that really logical. By definition, every team in the bottom third of every division are doing badly. I bet the supporters of nearly all those teams are calling for the manager to be sacked. It’s just not logical that all those managers are bad managers. But which one are the bad ones? You can't easily change the players and why trust the manager to get in new ones when he has picked the current ones. The median average of a football manager (and his coaching staff) at the moment is 1 year and 140 days therefore must be less for managers in the bottom third, depending on the clubs aspirations. Interesting that Robbie's 1 year + 140 days is 21st April. If he survives to then with the current situation / position and complains about performance I can't see him surviving after this season. You're assuming that it's correct that the average length of service for a football manager is as you describe. I think it's completely mad. Why? Can Arsene Wenger be counted as successful at Arsenal? What can as longer term manager do that a manager can't do within 1 to 2 years and how do you decide if they are a good or bad manager?

Author:	ReturnofMoo [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: If not Robbie, then who?
dons50 wrote: Alby wrote: Simon Grayson is a good manager. But he’s been sacked. I guess he shouldn’t have been sacked. He’d have sorted it out. If he's a good manager then, yes, he would. That's what would happen in any other walk of life. He is a good manager but not a good fit for Sunderland, but then I don't know who is?

Author:	keyser soze [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: If not Robbie, then who?
ReturnofMoo wrote: dons50 wrote: Alby wrote: Simon Grayson is a good manager. But he’s been sacked. I guess he shouldn’t have been sacked. He’d have sorted it out. If he's a good manager then, yes, he would. That's what would happen in any other walk of life. He is a good manager but not a good fit for Sunderland, but then I don't know who is? The perfect fit for the Mackems:

Author:	Kempstondons6 [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: If not Robbie, then who?
Silverous wrote: dons50 wrote: Kempstondons6 wrote: Silverous wrote: Kempstondons6 wrote: Silverous wrote: Robbie was the saviour, we had a post-new-manager bounce, now he's the villain. Success seems to be based on margins in this league - in my view we don't have quite the quality team we think we do (defence has been poor, attack lacking), our fans aren't quite as die hard and supportive as others perhaps, our stadium is too big and I suspect only a handful of the players are playing for the badge. Get a new manager and I suspect we'd have a post-new-manager bounce like we did with Robbie, but how much of that was down to having a Harvey Barnes & Chuks on form up front and the remains of our championship failing squad behind them. Still relatively new team, still not enough quality in attack for me - swap Maynard for Agard and it could be last season. Only some of this is down to Robbie. The sense of expectation, wrongly set by Robbie (and for that I do blame him), but with caution from Pete around maybe it will take more than a season (which clearly it will), is what baffles me. Surely every team in league one is entitled to want promotion but that magic combination of fans, team, manager, chairman, luck etc. will only be available to a few. Let's not wish for another manager who may have a bounce for a period and then flounder - let's get behind Robbie and the team, no doubt coming out to boos etc. from the fans doesn't help, and maybe moderate expectations for this season to something more realistic. He's not the messiah, he's just a naughty little boy. I disagree, it is Robbie’s team, he chose the players he wanted, he trains them to play the way he wants them to play, he sets the team up to play in a certain way and he choses which players will play each week so if isn’t his fault, whose is it? The only part of not his fault I would cut him slack for is sick note (sow). He can hardly be blamed for that. I disagree. We are a mid-table team and no manager is going to dramatically alter that. Maybe he chose the players we could afford or that wanted to come here, people seem to think we have a promotion side. He doesn't actually do the playing you may have noticed so when Ed Upson heads the ball to the opposition - is that Robbie? When we have either Sow or Aneke but not both - is that Robbie's fault? Its too easy and predictable to blame the manager - we blamed Robinson and he seems to be doing ok at Charlton now, and the same people I'm sure that hailed Robbie as the new messiah and wanted Robinson out are now calling for Neilson's head. The manager can do so much but not convinced they can work the miracle needed to get this team to playoffs. Think you need to take the rose tinted specs off and I made a point of mentioning sow. The football this season has been the worst i’ve Seen at mk. It’s not just a choice of Robinson or Robbie by the way. They’re not really rose tinted spectacles. The football world’s default response when things aren’t great for a team is sack the manager. Is that really logical. By definition, every team in the bottom third of every division are doing badly. I bet the supporters of nearly all those teams are calling for the manager to be sacked. It’s just not logical that all those managers are bad managers. This 100%. Those managers then go on to do well elsewhere, highlighting the illogical nature of blaming the manager when clearly they had some good management capability. The rose tinted view is that somehow MK dons deserve to be up there, when we don't seem to be particularly good at attacking or defending right now, because.....we have a sense of entitlement? If fans play any part in the success then we need to get behind the team and support them, our fan base literally boo players and managers the moment things don't go our way. Maybe D50 and silverous could join forces and make up the financial losses we are currently losing with attendances dropping like a brick, and if you could both continually move around the ground to make it look more full and sing 100 times louder that would be great. For the record I haven’t actually called for Robbie to be sacked but like a lot more I want him to sort the mess out quickly or my patience will shortly run out watching the total dross we are being served up.

Author:	Brando [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: If not Robbie, then who?
dons50 wrote: keyser soze wrote: I have, he's rubbish, and I still didn't make the team. Reminds me of another great song line: I never made the first team, I just made the first team laugh. She would never come to the phone - she was always in the bath.

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