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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:37 pm 
dons50 wrote:
FilthyDon wrote:
dons50 wrote:
FilthyDon wrote:
Gers wrote:
No. It's listening to fans opinions.


No. It's listening to fan's opinions.


fans'


You're right, I think.


Depends on how many fans we're listening to. If it's just one, you're right. ;)


I spent far too much time thinking about and researching plural possessions than I should have on this before concluding you were correct.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:42 pm 
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FilthyDon wrote:
dons50 wrote:
FilthyDon wrote:
dons50 wrote:
FilthyDon wrote:
Gers wrote:
No. It's listening to fans opinions.


No. It's listening to fan's opinions.


fans'


You're right, I think.


Depends on how many fans we're listening to. If it's just one, you're right. ;)


I spent far too much time thinking about and researching plural possessions than I should have on this before concluding you were correct.


You can never spend too much time thinking about that.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Wherever the apostrophe does, or does not go, Pete was utterly cowardly to pander to the lowest common denominator.

The sort of person who would demand answers from a football chairman should automatically be barred from the club in question.

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When you make your music, do you think about the man in the street? No, I've met the man in the street. He's a Ladybit.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:02 pm 
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BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
leodon wrote:
BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
FilthyDon wrote:
Gers wrote:
FilthyDon wrote:
Perhaps its just the videos themselves that are a poor choice, rather than listening to fan opinion.

No. It's listening to fans opinions.

No. It's listening to fan's opinions.

Both of these. :)
Glad to see FD's finally recognising it. ;)

It’s fans’ - Wodehouse would never get that wrong ;)

:D
*Bertie bows his head in deference to the great PGW*


However his name is spelt ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:03 pm 
Gers wrote:
Wherever the apostrophe does, or does not go, Pete was utterly cowardly to pander to the lowest common denominator.

The sort of person who would demand answers from a football chairman should automatically be barred from the club in question.


:lol: listen to yourself Gers. How dare fans question a club's owner.

Not that we are in anyway comparable to Blackpool, but you're saying that anyone demanding owners from the Oystons should be "automatically barred from the club"?

Fans care about their clubs, and the buck stops with the chairman. If you don't understand that then I question your own understanding of football, regardless of how many years you've been going.


Last edited by FilthyDon on Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Gers wrote:
To be serious for a moment, I think he's in a no-win situation.

He makes a quite simply appalling video, cancels the end of season awards, holds a 20 odd minute press conference pitchside. He's seen as pandering to the more vocal support. Who'd do well to accept their proportion of the blame for this season.

He does nothing publicly, those self-same "We demand answers" supporters, demand answers.

He can't win.

Which nicely fits with the on-pitch activities :( :(

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:30 pm 
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BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
FilthyDon wrote:
Either way, if Pete "he who is wisest and knows more than all of us" Winkelman, decides listening to an individual fan's opinion or fans' opinions and responding to them in a video, then he is right to do so, apparently. Or maybe he doesn't know how to run a club (including dealing with PR) as well as some think.

Businessmen and experienced chairmen know more about running a football club than fans do.
Football Managers know more about managing a football team than fans do.
Of course Pete will get things wrong, as all chairmen and managers do.
But you can't run a football club by listening to what the fans say (and some clubs have millions), and following what the loudest and most vociferous of the section want in the hope of placating them and keeping them onside.
Just like a manager shouldn't pick his team, or buy or sell players, based on what sections of the fans want.
The decisions have to be made by the people in charge, and those decisions have to be their call; not based on a collection of fans view and trying to reach a decision that will momentarily satisfy the most numbers.
Their role is to run the club.
Our role is to support the club.
We are all entitled to our opinions. And we are all entitled to voice those opinions.
But those opinions vary wildly, and so there is no "fan opinion".
And just following what the loudest, longest and largest group of complainers say in the hope of keeping the majority happy is not working. And that is one of Pete's main mistakes.
He has the best interests of the club at heart. He is in the best position to make the calls. He needs to do so and back them; not back down when some fans demand he does so.

A question........how do we know that Pete acted in response to fan power, we don’t actuslly know that, or have I missed something ?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:32 pm 
BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
FilthyDon wrote:
Either way, if Pete "he who is wisest and knows more than all of us" Winkelman, decides listening to an individual fan's opinion or fans' opinions and responding to them in a video, then he is right to do so, apparently. Or maybe he doesn't know how to run a club (including dealing with PR) as well as some think.

Businessmen and experienced chairmen know more about running a football club than fans do.
Football Managers know more about managing a football team than fans do.
Of course Pete will get things wrong, as all chairmen and managers do.
But you can't run a football club by listening to what the fans say (and some clubs have millions), and following what the loudest and most vociferous of the section want in the hope of placating them and keeping them onside.
Just like a manager shouldn't pick his team, or buy or sell players, based on what sections of the fans want.
The decisions have to be made by the people in charge, and those decisions have to be their call; not based on a collection of fans view and trying to reach a decision that will momentarily satisfy the most numbers.
Their role is to run the club.
Our role is to support the club.
We are all entitled to our opinions. And we are all entitled to voice those opinions.
But those opinions vary wildly, and so there is no "fan opinion".
And just following what the loudest, longest and largest group of complainers say in the hope of keeping the majority happy is not working. And that is one of Pete's main mistakes.
He has the best interests of the club at heart. He is in the best position to make the calls. He needs to do so and back them; not back down when some fans demand he does so.


Nobody is saying that Pete or others need to listen and act upon every single opinion presented by fans. We would be in an even greater mess than we are now if he did.

If Pete decides to respond them, then that is his decision. As I said earlier, people seem to think that whatever decisions he makes as chairman, so be it as he "knows how to run the club better". If he decides to respond, that's his years acting as a football chairman coming into play.

Not every opinion that fan(s) express is incorrect or wrong. Sometimes they are idiotic, sometimes they are ignorant, sometimes they are ill-founded or just plain wrong. But there are some fans who feel they know this club well, and can sense when things aren't quite right. Perhaps the lack of transparency lets the club down occasionally and leads to speculation e.g. the Lewie situation.

I'm really not sure what decisions you are getting at that you believe Pete back down on/changed? He was right to sack Neilson. He should have done it earlier, and he admitted as much. He did the same with Robinson. Fans calling for change of manager are generally only going on previous experiences, and on Pete's on words where he admits acting too late.

Is Pete really that weak to the point he would admit he acted too late, just to please a handful of outspoken fans? I hope not, otherwise the questions over his suitability are maybe justified if he lets a small group of fans affect him that much.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:36 pm 
Fans are idiots.

Anyone involved in the running of a club who allows themselves to be swayed by the opinions of fans are greater idiots.

That’s about it.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:56 pm 
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Let's ask Peter Drucker:

"There will always, one can assume, be need for some selling. But the aim of marketing is to make selling superflous. The aim of marketing is to know and understand the customer so well that the product or service fits him and sells itself. Ideally, marketing should result in a customer who is ready to buy. All that should be needed then is to make the product or service available".

Following on from that, I'd say football clubs (and Pete specifically) are getting two things wrong. The don't know 'their customer' - they only know the vocal few. They read Facebook and Twitter and so only get the views from a small subset of the fanbase. Arguably the least emotionally stable subset.

At the same time, they stop focussing on continually perfecting their product. Arsenal's approach seems to have been "4th? That'll do". Pete has been focused less on the football and more on the infrastructure. These approaches allow weaknesses in the product to continue longer than they should and allow things to slip into a death-cycle.

So, the answer, from a Marketing Management point of view? Pete needs to find ways to get back in touch with a much larger section of the fanbase. He should appoint someone to manage the infrastructure efforts, especially the training ground, just as he appoints someone to look after the football side of things. And then he should hold them to account, staying close to them and never losing his focus on the current product and the future development. Act quickly when things slip - that doesn't necessarily mean 'sack the manager' but it does mean quesioning, offering advice, asking if help is needed from outside.

Oh, and insider trading. Lots of that shit.

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