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 Post subject: Re: Will Grigg
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:13 pm 
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BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
Just spotted this, can't believe I'd overlooked it:
Guess what level Will Grigg started his first team career after being released by Birmingham aged 16, before being signed by "big-spending" Walsall?
That's right, non-league. Well done.
And guess what level Chey Dunkley and Dan Burn, the two CB's who looked very comfortable against Chuks all afternoon, started their first team careers as teenagers?
Right again! Non-league. How do you all do it?


Quite right, lets take no chances and sign every non-league player under 21 just in case they come good.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Grigg
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:25 pm 
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Look at the clubs that use non-league players, and see how much of their academy (if the have one) they use.
Now look at players who use their academies and see how many non-league players they use.
It's rare for a club to have enough funds to substantially invest in both areas, and so each club has to prioritise which area they want.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Grigg
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:28 am
Posts: 1145
BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
Bill wrote:
BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
Just spotted this, can't believe I'd overlooked it:
Guess what level Will Grigg started his first team career after being released by Birmingham aged 16, before being signed by "big-spending" Walsall?
That's right, non-league. Well done.
And guess what level Chey Dunkley and Dan Burn, the two CB's who looked very comfortable against Chuks all afternoon, started their first team careers as teenagers?
Right again! Non-league. How do you all do it?


Quite right, lets take no chances and sign every non-league player under 21 just in case they come good.

:?
So because I point out that we sign no non-league players at all, you think I'm suggesting the ludicrous step of buying every single one of them willy-nilly?
I'm never sure why people think taking another person's point to an absurd extreme wins them the argument.
It doesn't. It just makes their own post rather pointless.
We make loan signings - does that mean we have to now sign every single person on loan?
And the same for free transfers? Do we have to buy every single free agent just because we buy some?
I am clearly saying that we should do with the non-league market what we do with the other markets - scout them and buy the ones we want and that we are able to get. Rather than ignore the market completely.
I'm not quite sure what part of that you think is so preposterous that it warrants mockery.

Bristoldon makes a good point - how about responding to that one?


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 Post subject: Re: Will Grigg
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:44 pm
Posts: 1106
BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
Bill wrote:
BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
Just spotted this, can't believe I'd overlooked it:
Guess what level Will Grigg started his first team career after being released by Birmingham aged 16, before being signed by "big-spending" Walsall?
That's right, non-league. Well done.
And guess what level Chey Dunkley and Dan Burn, the two CB's who looked very comfortable against Chuks all afternoon, started their first team careers as teenagers?
Right again! Non-league. How do you all do it?


Quite right, lets take no chances and sign every non-league player under 21 just in case they come good.

:?
So because I point out that we sign no non-league players at all, you think I'm suggesting the ludicrous step of buying every single one of them willy-nilly?
I'm never sure why people think taking another person's point to an absurd extreme wins them the argument.
It doesn't. It just makes their own post rather pointless.
We make loan signings - does that mean we have to now sign every single person on loan?
And the same for free transfers? Do we have to buy every single free agent just because we buy some?
I am clearly saying that we should do with the non-league market what we do with the other markets - scout them and buy the ones we want and that we are able to get. Rather than ignore the market completely.
I'm not quite sure what part of that you think is so preposterous that it warrants mockery.


Sorry, I wss joking but for some reason my smilies didn't get included in the message

I have been saying we should be looking at Non-league for years


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 Post subject: Re: Will Grigg
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:01 pm
Posts: 432
BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
BristolDon wrote:
Look at the clubs that use non-league players, and see how much of their academy (if the have one) they use.
Now look at players who use their academies and see how many non-league players they use.
It's rare for a club to have enough funds to substantially invest in both areas, and so each club has to prioritise which area they want.

A valid sounding point. Although as most people don't know whether these players have non-league experience or not without checking each one individually, then I don't know how accurate it actually is.
As regards us, the non-league signings would not be instead of our academy players, or loans, they'd be instead of some, not all, of the bigger wage signings that we make such as Nicholls, Wootton, Walsh, Cisse, Agard, Sow, McGrandles, Upson, Gilbey, Aneke, Pawlett, Muirhead, Nesbitt, etc.
We don't just have academy players and loans, we do buy in quite a lot as well.
And all of those dropped down from higher divisions and so presumably have good wages, and some are signed for transfer fees. And they're not all successes. Just like not all the loans or academy players are; and like not all the non-league signings would be.
But what's wrong with utilising the non-league market when we see fit instead of just one or two of the players dropping down from higher divisions. We'd still get some of those. And loans. And academy players. We'd just be opening ourselves up to consider a previously ignored group of players, without having any bigger of a squad or any bigger wage bill, probably a little lower.

Anyway, I can see that my suggestion seems to annoy some / most of you for some reason, and I've had my say, so you'll be glad to here that I'll let it drop.



i think we oughta look at non league players what’s the harm in scouting the national league, or even the north south national, there has to be some capable players down there we could be missing out on


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 Post subject: Re: Will Grigg
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:00 am 
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Posts: 1427
Why ever did we let Grigg go ?


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 Post subject: Re: Will Grigg
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:15 am 
Last week it was Armstrong. This week Grigg.

In other words, our squad is miles off the quality needed to win promotion. Yes we have one true standout player that contributes to goals and assists (Chuks), but the likes of Blackburn (Armstrong, Dack, Graham, Mulgrew) and Wigan (Grigg, Powell, Jacobs, Power) have 4 or 5 standout players that boss most games. Just like we did when we were promoted last (Alli, Grigg, Afobe, both Bakers). They also have solid defences, and their all-round standard across their teams is superior to ours. I think only Chuks would stand any chance of getting into their starting 11s.

That's the standard required, and we're kidding ourselves if we think it's just tactics or the manager that will make the difference. The squad simply isn't strong enough at the moment, and if we stay up I think quite a few changes would be needed in the summer.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Grigg
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:32 pm
Posts: 3233
Galverion wrote:
Why ever did we let Grigg go ?


We didn’t. His loan ended. We’d never have been able to buy him. Wigan or someone else would’ve come in with a better offer anyway. I think we all need to move in from this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Grigg
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:03 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:01 am
Posts: 4880
BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
Bill wrote:
BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
Bill wrote:
BertieWoostersDonsClub wrote:
Just spotted this, can't believe I'd overlooked it:
Guess what level Will Grigg started his first team career after being released by Birmingham aged 16, before being signed by "big-spending" Walsall?
That's right, non-league. Well done.
And guess what level Chey Dunkley and Dan Burn, the two CB's who looked very comfortable against Chuks all afternoon, started their first team careers as teenagers?
Right again! Non-league. How do you all do it?


Quite right, lets take no chances and sign every non-league player under 21 just in case they come good.

:?
So because I point out that we sign no non-league players at all, you think I'm suggesting the ludicrous step of buying every single one of them willy-nilly?
I'm never sure why people think taking another person's point to an absurd extreme wins them the argument.
It doesn't. It just makes their own post rather pointless.
We make loan signings - does that mean we have to now sign every single person on loan?
And the same for free transfers? Do we have to buy every single free agent just because we buy some?
I am clearly saying that we should do with the non-league market what we do with the other markets - scout them and buy the ones we want and that we are able to get. Rather than ignore the market completely.
I'm not quite sure what part of that you think is so preposterous that it warrants mockery.


Sorry, I was joking but for some reason my smilies didn't get included in the message

I have been saying we should be looking at Non-league for years


That's fine. :D
And apologies from me. It is possible that I might conceivably, just ever so slightly, have overreacted to your banter. ;)
I'm glad you agree about the (Bertie looks nervously over both shoulders and lowers his voice) non-league market.
But, sssh! Don't tell anyone I mentioned it again. :)


Well I agree with you Bertie even if we have to be selective and our scouting network is limited. If Shrewbury can do it with an academy I don't see why we can't.

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Disclaimer: All my comments are my opinions unless stated otherwise. I'm just a fan following my club.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Grigg
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:27 pm
Posts: 507
We could have bought him and also another couple of quality championship players if we had invested a large amount of the Dele money instead of putting it towards the training ground. If we had invested in the playing squad I really believe we would have stayed up in the championship as in most games we had numerous chances we didn’t take which even taking some would have given us the points to keep out of the drop zone.

The additional income from an extra 2 seasons at championship level would have seen us actually increase the Dele money and made that maney really work for us, but as we all know Pete cocked up and a couple of seasons on league 2 are now looming large

If we ever get another player near Dele’s level though the academy let’s hope we have learnt what is a very painful lesson

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