THE CONCRETE ROUNDABOUT (TCR)

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 Post subject: Re: Elliott Ward
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:54 pm
Posts: 10
The first thing he did was let the ball roll under his foot....but thankfully it improved from there! Still one or two moments where he didn’t connect well with the ball, but I put that down to a bit of rustiness. Looked pretty solid for the most part.


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 Post subject: Re: Elliott Ward
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:09 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:07 pm
Posts: 80
Donsduck wrote:
why do defenders back off so far nowadays had he stood up and made a tackle outside the box may well have stopped the goal rather than backing off and letting them shoot at will.
If you attempt the tackle outside the box cover may also arrive.


That doesn't sound right. You attempt a tackle early, and if it fails then they're clean through. Standing off should slow them down, so (1) cover can arrive, or (2) the defender can wait for til the attacker has least control over the ball. Plus, going in early when the attackers moving at speed is more likely to produce a foul and free kick.

Granted, standing off too much means they can carry on unchallenged and get the shot away, but diving in too early can arguably be worse. That's why modern defenders stand off so much.


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 Post subject: Re: Elliott Ward
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:18 am 
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Posts: 426
BristolDon wrote:
Donsduck wrote:
why do defenders back off so far nowadays had he stood up and made a tackle outside the box may well have stopped the goal rather than backing off and letting them shoot at will.
If you attempt the tackle outside the box cover may also arrive.


That doesn't sound right. You attempt a tackle early, and if it fails then they're clean through. Standing off should slow them down, so (1) cover can arrive, or (2) the defender can wait for til the attacker has least control over the ball. Plus, going in early when the attackers moving at speed is more likely to produce a foul and free kick.

Granted, standing off too much means they can carry on unchallenged and get the shot away, but diving in too early can arguably be worse. That's why modern defenders stand off so much.


Agreed. As Paolo Maldini famously said "if I have to make a tackle I have already made a mistake". Maldini was so good he probably only made about three tackles in his whole career. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Elliott Ward
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:41 pm
Posts: 872
BristolDon wrote:
Donsduck wrote:
why do defenders back off so far nowadays had he stood up and made a tackle outside the box may well have stopped the goal rather than backing off and letting them shoot at will.
If you attempt the tackle outside the box cover may also arrive.


That doesn't sound right. You attempt a tackle early, and if it fails then they're clean through. Standing off should slow them down, so (1) cover can arrive, or (2) the defender can wait for til the attacker has least control over the ball. Plus, going in early when the attackers moving at speed is more likely to produce a foul and free kick.

Granted, standing off too much means they can carry on unchallenged and get the shot away, but diving in too early can arguably be worse. That's why modern defenders stand off so much.


How is it worse than conceding a goal? I agree with donsduck and have been saying it for weeks.


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 Post subject: Re: Elliott Ward
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:46 am
Posts: 46
Yep, was impressed with ward. Wootton however is a liability.


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 Post subject: Re: Elliott Ward
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:30 pm 
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Posts: 80
Kempstondons6 wrote:
BristolDon wrote:
Donsduck wrote:
why do defenders back off so far nowadays had he stood up and made a tackle outside the box may well have stopped the goal rather than backing off and letting them shoot at will.
If you attempt the tackle outside the box cover may also arrive.


That doesn't sound right. You attempt a tackle early, and if it fails then they're clean through. Standing off should slow them down, so (1) cover can arrive, or (2) the defender can wait for til the attacker has least control over the ball. Plus, going in early when the attackers moving at speed is more likely to produce a foul and free kick.

Granted, standing off too much means they can carry on unchallenged and get the shot away, but diving in too early can arguably be worse. That's why modern defenders stand off so much.


How is it worse than conceding a goal? I agree with donsduck and have been saying it for weeks.


In this instance, yes, he should have closed down a bit sooner. But in the vast majority of cases, they don't concede a goal, so why would they risk giving away free kicks, getting cards, and potentially an easier scoring opportunity. If you're not at least 95% sure that you can win the ball, then you shouldn't be going into challenges. That's one of the basics of defending. Just because it didn't work this time, doesn't mean that it's the wrong thing to do in general.


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 Post subject: Re: Elliott Ward
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:54 pm
Posts: 91
Have a look at some of our match highlights a lot of goals recently have been scored with defenders backing off and the player either scoring or passing to another player in the box who does. If you back off at the same speed the player is coming at you you are not holding them up merely giving them a free run at goal.

The best example of this is the block Elliott Ward put in in the second half yesterday had Wootton done something similar there is no goal.


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 Post subject: Re: Elliott Ward
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:41 pm
Posts: 872
BristolDon wrote:
Kempstondons6 wrote:
BristolDon wrote:
Donsduck wrote:
why do defenders back off so far nowadays had he stood up and made a tackle outside the box may well have stopped the goal rather than backing off and letting them shoot at will.
If you attempt the tackle outside the box cover may also arrive.


That doesn't sound right. You attempt a tackle early, and if it fails then they're clean through. Standing off should slow them down, so (1) cover can arrive, or (2) the defender can wait for til the attacker has least control over the ball. Plus, going in early when the attackers moving at speed is more likely to produce a foul and free kick.

Granted, standing off too much means they can carry on unchallenged and get the shot away, but diving in too early can arguably be worse. That's why modern defenders stand off so much.


How is it worse than conceding a goal? I agree with donsduck and have been saying it for weeks.


In this instance, yes, he should have closed down a bit sooner. But in the vast majority of cases, they don't concede a goal, so why would they risk giving away free kicks, getting cards, and potentially an easier scoring opportunity. If you're not at least 95% sure that you can win the ball, then you shouldn't be going into challenges. That's one of the basics of defending. Just because it didn't work this time, doesn't mean that it's the wrong thing to do in general.


The one thing I was always taught was you never allow a player to get a cross in or a shot away.


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 Post subject: Re: Elliott Ward
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:01 am
Posts: 897
Kempstondons6 wrote:
BristolDon wrote:
Kempstondons6 wrote:
BristolDon wrote:
Donsduck wrote:
why do defenders back off so far nowadays had he stood up and made a tackle outside the box may well have stopped the goal rather than backing off and letting them shoot at will.
If you attempt the tackle outside the box cover may also arrive.


That doesn't sound right. You attempt a tackle early, and if it fails then they're clean through. Standing off should slow them down, so (1) cover can arrive, or (2) the defender can wait for til the attacker has least control over the ball. Plus, going in early when the attackers moving at speed is more likely to produce a foul and free kick.

Granted, standing off too much means they can carry on unchallenged and get the shot away, but diving in too early can arguably be worse. That's why modern defenders stand off so much.


How is it worse than conceding a goal? I agree with donsduck and have been saying it for weeks.


In this instance, yes, he should have closed down a bit sooner. But in the vast majority of cases, they don't concede a goal, so why would they risk giving away free kicks, getting cards, and potentially an easier scoring opportunity. If you're not at least 95% sure that you can win the ball, then you shouldn't be going into challenges. That's one of the basics of defending. Just because it didn't work this time, doesn't mean that it's the wrong thing to do in general.


The one thing I was always taught was you never allow a player to get a cross in or a shot away.


I don't think Wootton was confident in making the tackle, which was why he backed off. I would have preferred conceding a foul outside the box (especially if it is wide), but Dan has told the players not to.

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 Post subject: Re: Elliott Ward
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:58 pm
Posts: 1322
SW4don wrote:
Yep, was impressed with ward. Wootton however is a liability.


It's no exaggeration to say he is error prone and responsible for quite a few goals being conceded this season. He really needs to cut out silly mistakes from his game or we get rid in the summer when his deal runs out.


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