THE CONCRETE ROUNDABOUT (TCR)

The Unofficial MK Dons Forum. Discuss and debate all things Dons
It is currently Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:42 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

Who is responsible for the start to the season?
Poll ended at Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:15 pm
Pete for lack of playing budget? 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
Pete/Liam for appointing G Alexander? 13%  13%  [ 4 ]
G Alexander for failing to get the best out of players? 63%  63%  [ 20 ]
Liam for failing to recruit good enough players? 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
The fans for their lack of patience? 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
The players for mistakes/failing to adapt? 16%  16%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 32
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:15 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:27 pm
Posts: 1605
If we draw a line under last season, we started again this season and the wheels have fallen off spectacularly so who shoulders the blame for what has happened since our latest reset?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:49 pm
Posts: 1664
Hard to choose as it’s more than one option

_________________
Most pessimistic poster - 2020


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:49 pm
Posts: 1664
2, 3, 6.

_________________
Most pessimistic poster - 2020


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:23 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:27 pm
Posts: 1605
I guess pick the most responsible in your opinion


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:37 pm
Posts: 3625
A contribution of everything really. I'd be surprised with our recruitment that the top one is involved but then again thats usually what our fans like to blame everything on


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:55 am
Posts: 1662
MKAylesburyDon wrote:
If we draw a line under last season, we started again this season and the wheels have fallen off spectacularly so who shoulders the blame for what has happened since our latest reset?


Thats a big "if" - huge hangover from last year still, including players recruited in summer 2022 who it turns out aren't even L2 level, let alone L1! But GA gets my vote, just, over the players themselves.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:56 am
Posts: 2854
Pete and Sweeting gave their new manager a big budget to sign some brilliant players. Say what you want about timings of x players - Filthy had the arse about not being done quickly enough but by the end of the transfer window it was a success.
On paper, the players we kept should be more than good enough at this level. Eisa, O'Hora, Leko, Harvie even... we have done well in our previous relegation to keep ahold of our biggest talents. Last time, Aneke, Agard, Brittain, Nicholls, Gilbey.. we done the same this year.

What we did, was employ a manager who seemed to have all the credentials. I wanted him in 2018 let alone 2023 so I'm not gonna sit here and let recency bias change history that I never rated him. I got it wrong. The club would've done their due diligence and come to a conclusion that this was the correct move. Though, I listen to Winkelbot on the ifollow interview and I didn't get much excitement from this appointment as say, Tisdale in 2018 when he called a press conference live on Sky with a broad smile on his face.

Part of me believes he never wanted GA - he'd applied before and didn't get the job so why was he right now? So why was he hired? Not many other options? Loved his willingness to come back again and again to get a job he wants? Swallowing pride and trusting the recruitment team that this would work. Either way, it happened. And whatever you think of the appointment it should've been better than this and Pete and Sweeting can't be held responsible for what goes on on the field. They can be held somewhat responsible for the tools they give him, but we can all agree that this squad is more than capable of giving us more than one game of excitement in 16.

So this one is on the manager to me. Has he worked them too hard? Has he approached it correctly, too strict, not strict enough? We were worried in pre season for goodness sake, we didn't win a single game in pre season. Meant nothing at about half 5 in Wrexham but ultimately, many like WellDon felt the writing was on the wall.
He set his sides up absolutely abysmally in the opening weeks. No patterns of play. No moments (literally none) where you get up off the edge of your seat and shout "go on" and get excited at a mazy run, or a cutting edge defence splitting pass, or a neat one two... it was scrappy, hit and hope, kick and run rubbish. That isn't Pete Winkelman or Liam Sweeting's fault. I know you'll tell me it's their fault for hiring him, but it was their fault for hiring Jackson, who clearly wasn't up to it, not hiring a manager who has 35 years football experience, 1k appearances, hundreds of games as a manager, I'd expect better too. He (GA) won't see his style as "kick and run rubbish"... He'll see a method in it nobody else sees. But if we'd been told we'd get what we got, he'd never have got the job. Or, let me rephrase, if LS and PW knew they'd get what was served up, they'd never have hired him.

This tome last year we should've sacked Manning. Not because he's a bad manager. Not because he's a bad guy. Quite the contrary to all of that. We failed him. But the writing was on the wall. It wasn't just a slow start. It wasn't just a bad run. It was horrendous, and I'm sure he didn't understand either. But ultimately it was what it was and we should've acted sooner. So credit where it is due, at least they done it this time. Fuck the niceties. Forget the loyalty to people you've known a matter of months. Act on it and move on quickly.

There is a team here that can play football. There is a team here that can gel. There is a team that can go on a run and win games and make a success of this season. It lies on the next guywho hopefully revolutionises the mood and feeling inside the club. Sparks a bit of light into the squad. Because for whatever reason it may be, it is dim. But its not too late to turn around.

It was Graham Alexander's fault for not sorting this out. Not Winkelman. Not Sweeting. They gave him the tools and he made a dogs dinner of it.

_________________
#DonYourWhite

Turn Stadium MK WHITE In The Playoffs


https://donsaction.co.uk/

GET THIS SEASONS HOME SHIRT FOR £16.50 ↓↓↓
https://shop.mkdons.co.uk/collections/23-24-home-kit


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:34 pm
Posts: 557
I havent used the voting function as none of the options are viable or the isolated problem for me.

So who do I think is responsible

1) Winkelman - Hes the owner, the buck stops with him. This applies when or if the good times come back as well.

2) Alexander - I still dont know if things could have worked out or not but I think he got himself in no mans land in terms of what he was trying to achieve. In high level sport, thats about the worst possible place to be.

3) The players - For all the ' they are are too good for this league' and 'its a strong squad' the facts just dont support that. You can talk systems and instruction all day long but nobody can take account of any player who cant do the basics that they have been taught since the age of 5 and practiced every working day of their professional career. Thats firmly and squarely on individuals for me.

4) The fans - or more accurately the expectations of the fans. I cant get my head around the notion that we are somehow considered one of the big clubs at this level. We are minnows, 20 years old, no training ground, tiny turnover, no history. I think there is a huge confusion over what we are because of the stadium we play in and the facilities around that stadium. Those do not make us a big club. we are merely a tenant in somebody elses dream. That wont be changing anytime soon either.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:24 am
Posts: 1086
Magpie wrote:
I havent used the voting function as none of the options are viable or the isolated problem for me.

So who do I think is responsible

1) Winkelman - Hes the owner, the buck stops with him. This applies when or if the good times come back as well.

2) Alexander - I still dont know if things could have worked out or not but I think he got himself in no mans land in terms of what he was trying to achieve. In high level sport, thats about the worst possible place to be.

3) The players - For all the ' they are are too good for this league' and 'its a strong squad' the facts just dont support that. You can talk systems and instruction all day long but nobody can take account of any player who cant do the basics that they have been taught since the age of 5 and practiced every working day of their professional career. Thats firmly and squarely on individuals for me.

4) The fans - or more accurately the expectations of the fans. I cant get my head around the notion that we are somehow considered one of the big clubs at this level. We are minnows, 20 years old, no training ground, tiny turnover, no history. I think there is a huge confusion over what we are because of the stadium we play in and the facilities around that stadium. Those do not make us a big club. we are merely a tenant in somebody elses dream. That wont be changing anytime soon either.


Fair.

1) Winkelman is the owner and he is the ultimate custodian of everything, so he has to carry the can. However I will say he did enter into this with the best intentions and with the idea that we would come straight back up. I think GA was a one-season project for immediate promotion in his eyes. He also did give the club a decent playing budget, and we recruited mostly mid-career professionals with higher wage demands.

2) Alexander found out quite quickly he was a square peg in a round hole. He mentioned having adapted his playing style in response to feedback, but at the same time we had recruited for his original style, which some will call hoofball. After this point the team actually performed more poorly and got worse results, and if he reflects on what happened if he goes for another position, I hope he would cite that as his major mistake here. He's stubborn and rigid "my way or the highway" and that is fine if you have a fan base that will back that, but he did not get that here and was forced to confront his limitations very early on - a weak tactician and less adaptive than he thought he was. In my opinion he also failed to deal with the softer personalities in the squad. Burns, Devoy, come to mind. Couple of young guys away from home who both strike me as needing a bit of 1-on-1 time and a warmer presence in the manager's office than Alexander offered. Alexander probably deserves the most actual blame for how the season has turned out and should hopefully admit in the future he performed below his own expectations. Take his "well I took all the penalties" stuff when he talks about taking responsibility. Yes, he does love the pressure and that is a good quality, and his penalty success record is outstanding. But he also took penalties with a goofy straight run up and a style which was difficult for even a technically competent professional to master. Almost nobody does that. It's a style which worked for him, but I bet he didn't coach penalty takers at his clubs to do is his way. I bet he understood that penalty taking was as much a matter of settling into a comfort zone physically and mentally as anything else, and it is disappointing he always seemed less adaptable in his approach to man management and tactics.

3) Players. They're good enough to be promoted on paper. It's a good squad with depth and a range of options available to a flexible and learned coach. Some of them are however performing well below their potential. Tucker, O'Hora, Leko, are hangovers from last season and Harvie to a certain extent too. These are better players than they are letting on and unlocking them is partly on them but also partly on the head coach. Alexander just came out and admitted he could not get the players to do what he wanted - very basic things like shoring up a 2-0 lead (!) - and hopefully a new coach will have better success.

4) Fans. They are what they are. We have a very weird and segmented fan base. There's the old guard who were around at the time of the FA Commission, there are new fans (see DonsAction) who are less invested in the split and more so in being a "normal" football league club, there are semi-casuals like me who like their football but support the local team on principle and local pride, and there are the pure casuals who come once or twice a season if we are playing well. Part of me can't decide if Alexander would have got longer or shorter at another club. We aren't a militant lot but there is also a wider expectation of "style" in the fanbase, which I am ambivalent about but respect that is just how it is. We aren't a "big club" but there is still great potential - imagine we'd clung on and stayed in the Championship for two seasons. A lot can change in a few years, as we have found out - not always for the better, but football still does continue to surprise me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:15 pm
Posts: 7680
Location: 1978/79
Quote:
There is a team here that can play football. There is a team here that can gel. There is a team that can go on a run and win games and make a success of this season. It lies on the next guywho hopefully revolutionises the mood and feeling inside the club. Sparks a bit of light into the squad. Because for whatever reason it may be, it is dim. But its not too late to turn around.



You been reading Churchill's wartime speeches? ;)

_________________
Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group