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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 1:14 pm 
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Gravel Path to Martti wrote:
Lewis was cheated out of his 8th driver's WC.

The longer that passes since this happened, the more I think Liberty were in Michael Masi's ear to get him to engineer a Hollywood finale.

Gravel Path to Martti wrote:
This is what I love about F1, the GOAT conversation is so difficult because it's almost impossible to compare eras. So you end up having a range of people make cases for (usually) their favourite driver. I've had so many of these conversations with my Dad, who will die on his hill saying no one is close to Senna.

Absolutely true. Personally, I'd say Jim Clark. An incredible win rate at a time when cars were notoriously unreliable, and the racing was extremely dangerous. Especially driving for Lotus, where Colin Chapman was known for sacrificing safety and reliability for outright performance.

F1 is now so prescriptive in terms of driving to data, strategy, tyre management and engine management that I think it's impossible to gauge the true talent of any of the modern-day drivers.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 2:19 pm 
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Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Gravel Path to Martti wrote:
Lewis was cheated out of his 8th driver's WC.

The longer that passes since this happened, the more I think Liberty were in Michael Masi's ear to get him to engineer a Hollywood finale.

Gravel Path to Martti wrote:
This is what I love about F1, the GOAT conversation is so difficult because it's almost impossible to compare eras. So you end up having a range of people make cases for (usually) their favourite driver. I've had so many of these conversations with my Dad, who will die on his hill saying no one is close to Senna.

Absolutely true. Personally, I'd say Jim Clark. An incredible win rate at a time when cars were notoriously unreliable, and the racing was extremely dangerous. Especially driving for Lotus, where Colin Chapman was known for sacrificing safety and reliability for outright performance.

F1 is now so prescriptive in terms of driving to data, strategy, tyre management and engine management that I think it's impossible to gauge the true talent of any of the modern-day drivers.


Yeah, comparing drivers from different eras is more or less impossible. The real leveller is rain and in that regard Schumacher and Senna stand out alone.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 2:24 pm 
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keyser soze wrote:
Magpie wrote:
keyser soze wrote:
I’m not a fan but a genuine question: I know there is some form of electric F1 in place but when do you think that will take over from the petrol version and be the senior competition? Petrol F1 at some point will surely become an anachronism, reserved for the Goodwood revival etc. Has there been any discussion about how to flip them?


Actually there is an opposite direction with synthetic fuel being developed. Formula E of which you refer has its place but its a difficult watch for me, full of gimmicks and homologated. I love motor racing and watch most variants but find Formula E and Extreme E the least compelling.

The current F1 formula is 1.6 V6 engines with a complicated hybrid system that harvests energy from braking/axle (MGU-K) and from the heat generated at the turbo (MGU-H) so there is an amount of electrical energy aligned with the ICE. These regs will last until the end of the 2025 season when a new formula will be introduced but will still largely be ICE.

Thanks.

Synthetic fuel sounds interesting but isn't part of the importance of F1 the fact it's a test bed for future road car technology? Maybe not anymore but I seem to recall that used to be talked about. If it is still seen as a way of developing the mass market tech (if!), and the mass market doesn't go down the synthetic fuel route, surely major F1 manufacturers will lose interest?

Sorry for the long winded questions - the future of the car post-petrol interests me. I'm not entirely convinced by the current (no pun intended) electric solutions but, as that seems to be where all the big money (and legislation) is going, it's interesting to know about other future options.


I think that’s true more so than ever. The amount car manufacturers is now more than it’s been for many years and with Audi joining and eventually GM via their Caddilac brand it shows the direction of future thought. It’s about innovation for sure but I also think it might be a sign the the EV revolution might not be the saviour it was hoped to be. Synth fuels already exist but currently aren’t commercially viable. Eventually though, that will change I would think.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 2:26 pm 
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Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Gravel Path to Martti wrote:
Lewis was cheated out of his 8th driver's WC.

The longer that passes since this happened, the more I think Liberty were in Michael Masi's ear to get him to engineer a Hollywood finale.

Gravel Path to Martti wrote:
This is what I love about F1, the GOAT conversation is so difficult because it's almost impossible to compare eras. So you end up having a range of people make cases for (usually) their favourite driver. I've had so many of these conversations with my Dad, who will die on his hill saying no one is close to Senna.

Absolutely true. Personally, I'd say Jim Clark. An incredible win rate at a time when cars were notoriously unreliable, and the racing was extremely dangerous. Especially driving for Lotus, where Colin Chapman was known for sacrificing safety and reliability for outright performance.

F1 is now so prescriptive in terms of driving to data, strategy, tyre management and engine management that I think it's impossible to gauge the true talent of any of the modern-day drivers.


With regards to the 8th title that never was, I suspect it’s a case where one should not confuse malice with incompetence.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:23 pm 
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Magpie wrote:
Yeah, comparing drivers from different eras is more or less impossible. The real leveller is rain and in that regard Schumacher and Senna stand out alone.

I'm not sure you can even apply that any more, given that F1 is now completely allergic to racing in wet conditions. The last genuinely stand-out drive I can remember in proper wet conditions was Hamilton at Silverstone in 2008. For all we know, Max might be an absolute god in the rain, but we'll never get the chance to find out.

Then again, there are now so many races that it's hard to pick out any stand-out drives from anyone full stop.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:29 pm 
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Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Magpie wrote:
Yeah, comparing drivers from different eras is more or less impossible. The real leveller is rain and in that regard Schumacher and Senna stand out alone.

I'm not sure you can even apply that any more, given that F1 is now completely allergic to racing in wet conditions. The last genuinely stand-out drive I can remember in proper wet conditions was Hamilton at Silverstone in 2008. For all we know, Max might be an absolute god in the rain, but we'll never get the chance to find out.

Then again, there are now so many races that it's hard to pick out any stand-out drives from anyone full stop.


I think that depends on what floats your boat. Personally I think Albon delivered some heroic drives last season. Alonso rolled back the years for a third of the season and watching Piastri get to full grips with F1 was a great watch. I enjoy watching that stuff way more then the Verstappen metronomic, Lulu moaning or Leclerc being epically fast but binning it when it matters.

Watching the Alpines regularly crash into each other was also great entertainment


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:58 pm 
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Magpie wrote:
Personally I think Albon delivered some heroic drives last season. Alonso rolled back the years for a third of the season and watching Piastri get to full grips with F1 was a great watch.

Frankly, that just sounds like clutching at straws.

Now THIS is a heroic performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTIk2EV-1mY

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 1:06 pm 
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Did everybody enjoy yesterday's race?

I watched it with a bunch of Red Bull Racing employees and even they had to concede it was fucking crap. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 1:28 pm 
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Lieutenant Dan wrote:
Did everybody enjoy yesterday's race?

I watched it with a bunch of Red Bull Racing employees and even they had to concede it was fucking crap. :lol:

Boring. How far in front was he! It's ridiculous.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 4:54 pm 
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I see Jeremy Clarkson predicted Adrian Newey to win. How right he was.


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